Monday, December 31, 2007

Another Thank You

Another person has placed me as a permanent link on their blog. Thanks!

Sunday, December 30, 2007

New Web Site:

A friend has recently started a web site that already has quite a bit of content. It's not your usual web site, and is fairly broad. It's in it's beginning stages of being an online independent radio station and it contains a free download of Dave's harmony of the four gospels, another book he wrote, art, study guides, podcasts, people's stories and more. Give it a chance and see what you think. Those of us that spend too much time studying prophecy need to branch out!

Thursday, December 27, 2007

Polls, Visitors, Statistics and Search Words

Within the last few weeks I decided to watch my web site statistics a little closer to try and figure out who was coming here, where you were coming from and why. I took a poll that many of you overlooked, but I still think that it portrayed accurately that most that visit here are pre-wrath believers, or are at least leaning in that direction. Some of you are pre-tribbers, while only one lonely preterist accidentally wandered in to vote.

I’ve been checking my stat counter on a daily basis, and if you don’t have one for your web site I suggest you get one. It helps. In doing so, search words have become my favorite thing to check. It’s been fun to see words typed into people’s search bars that bring them to this site to find exactly what they’re looking for such as “Matthew 24 and Luke 21 compared,” “Revelation 3:10 pre-wrath,” “pre-wrath Revelation chart,” “preterist are wrong” or “is fig tree Israel.” There’s even been ten people that, I'm assuming, have come here by accident in their search for a photo of little Opie from the Andy Griffith Show!

It’s been downright funny to see some of you enter entire sentences into your search bar as if your computer can hear and reason like a human being. Sorry for making fun of you, but I’m not financially supported by your giving, so I can do as I please! One example would be “how does revelation take place?” The two longest search word winners are both related to the Beast Empire study I'm previously working on, and the winners are:

“What does the individual pieces of Daniel's statue represent?”


“The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is.”

I’ve gotten a plethora of visitors due to their searches for John Hagee, and most of these searches don’t bode well for Mr. Sensational. The top three that entertained me the most were “John Hagee shot in his church,” John Hagee is an idiot” and John Hagee the idiot!” Poor John.

And I don't want to leave out the fact that there’s been noticeable visitors coming from the following places the last few weeks. I wanted to thank those of you that have placed my blog on your blog or web site.

And a big thanks to all of you that keep telling others about the Tribune as you post on other blogs and forums. Don’t think I haven't noticed. It’s fun to see and it’s what keeps this place active, so keep up the good work.


Sunday, December 23, 2007

The Beast Empire—Seven Heads: Part 5

Now we come to Revelation 13.

And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. (Revelation 13:1-2)

In Daniel 7 we saw a lion that represented the Babylonian empire, a bear that was symbolic of the Medo/Persian empire and a leopard that paralleled the Grecian empire. This beast in Revelation 13 is said to have body parts from each of the previous beasts we’ve discussed in Daniel. The “dreadful and terrifying beast” that signified the Roman empire in Daniel is not directly mentioned in verses 1-2, but as we continue in this study I think it will become apparent that it, too, is clearly represented in this beast entity.

There is much debate concerning who this beast is in chapter thirteen and who the seven heads are. Daniel only told us of five empires, but in this Revelation account we see seven heads. Chapter seventeen expands upon this and further identifies that these heads are indeed representative of the kings of the beast empires.

Here is the mind which has wisdom The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. (Revelation 17:9-10)

Some read of the seven mountains in Revelation and conclude that they are the seven hills that present day Rome consists of, but I tend to lean towards the thought that the seven mountains are simply symbolic of each individual empire as a whole, while the heads are symbolic of the leaders of that empire. In my second installment of this semi-short study I showed that the beasts in Daniel were clearly dualistic, meaning that they were spoken of as empires and as kings of those empires, and I think that the same idea is portrayed here in Revelation, though this mountain interpretation of mine may be debatable. I’m open to suggestions.
A Change of Mind

After I wrote this entry I had a new thought that I have previously overlooked and I thought that I should amend this post for accuracy. I think that the seven mountains may not be speaking of the empires of the kings as I suggested above.

Here's why:
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits and they are seven kings... (Rev 17:9-10)

The seven heads are the SYMBOLIC message. The symbolic is made clear and interpreted to be seven kings. It doesn't make sense that a symbolic message would be interpreted to be a literal seven kings only to give another symbolic answer in "the mountains." I think the mountains must be literal, and not another symbolic answer that came from the original symbolic vision.

You saw it here first. Someone that writes a prophecy blog admitting that they were probably wrong about something!

Nevertheless, Revelation 17:10 makes it clear that the seven heads are seven kings. But these seven kings are two more than were spoken of in Daniel, so who are these extra kings?

…five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come... (Revelation 17:9-10)

Walking Backwards

I think the logical way to begin is to begin with what we know, and that is that one king “is” according to this vision, and we know that the kingdom in existence at the time of this vision that John had was Rome, therefore “five have fallen” before Rome. Considering Revelation links its beast to Daniel’s by showing it’s leopard, lion and bear qualities, and that the end of the world that Daniel spoke of is the same end spoken of in Revelation, and that the final beast empire that Daniel wrote about is the same that John speaks of in Revelation, it seems that we should, as usual, be able to combine the two accounts of the beast empires to gain a bigger and better picture.

Knowing that Rome is the kingdom present in John’s day we should be able to search in reverse order from this point and follow the trail that Daniel left us. Daniel showed that the empires previous to the Roman empire were Grecian, Medo/Persian, and first, at the time of Daniel, was the Babylonian empire. But still, according to Revelation the king of Rome was the sixth king, and including the three previous to Rome as we just have we only have the fifth, fourth and third kings clarified. Where do the other two “heads” come from?

Again, and as usual, there is debate, but it seems the simplest answer is found in the two empires previous to Babylon. Daniel’s vision began for him at a place where it was relevant to him and his people. God was showing Daniel what would take place in Israel’s near and distant future, thus the vision began with the king/kingdom that was present in Daniel’s day (Babylon) and moved forward until the vision culminated into the final empire. But here in Revelation 13 and 17 I believe that John is given a much broader view of the entire history and future of the beast empires combined.

In Revelation chapter seventeen it’s made clear that the vision included the historical kings/kingdoms that were previous to John and the Roman empire, so there is really no reason to reject that the vision could include empires previous to Daniel’s vision, too. It seems that one reason this historical view is given is to show believers in Christ who the real leader of each of these empires actually is, and has been, since the beginning. It is Satan. In chapter twelve we see a beast in heaven that is described as a dragon, and this dragon is shown to have seven heads and ten horns just as the beast out of the sea in chapter thirteen is said to have.

Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. (Revelation 12:3)

It seems to me that this is done in order to give us insight into this satanic beast system. The beast system, from beginning to end, is a part of Satan’s system engineered to persecute the saints and to further rebel against God and His eternal kingdom.

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (Revelation 12:9)

Though the above passage is not speaking of the original instance when Satan was cast from heaven, it clearly indicates that the dragon represents him. Maybe I will delve further at another time into this second instance where Satan will be thrown from the heavens.

As it usually goes with writing of prophecy I’ve gotten off track. So who were the two main empires that were previous to Daniel as shown in the Bible? They can be none other than Egypt and Assyria, thus we have in John’s vision a seven headed beast that shows Satan’s beast system from beginning to end, from the Egyptian empire to the beast empire’s end sometime in the, potentially, not too distant future.

It’s Still Rome

What I’ve discussed above adds to my list of reasons why I believe that the fourth beast of Daniel must be Rome rather than the Islamic empire that began rising years afterwards with Muhammad’s conquests as some have suggested. While some of the below reasons are closely related to each other, there are different nuances within each that merit mentioning.

1. It seems awkward that Daniel’s vision would skip over the Roman empire when I consider the importance that Rome played in biblical history.

2. Adding to the above thought, why would Daniel exclude Rome considering the fact that the 69th week concluded during the Roman Empire?

3. The Roman king in Revelation 17 is clearly indicated as the king/kingdom that “is” at the time of John, and that it is one of the beast’s heads within the entire beast system.

4. Considering the smooth parallels between the books of Revelation and Daniel, why exclude Rome in Daniel when it’s clearly mentioned in Revelation?

5. The number of empires add up perfectly when Biblical history is combined with the two books. According to Revelation, Rome was the sixth empire. Counting backwards from Rome there were five other world empires that previously fell just as chapter seventeen indicates.

6. It makes sense that Egypt and Syria were not mentioned in Daniel. This smoothly brings us to the sixth, Rome, in Revelation 17.

7. The fact that Revelation includes Rome as part of the beast system makes it seem illogical for me to conclude that the Roman empire is not mentioned in Daniel's beasts.

If you have other reasons related to Daniel or Revelation that ad to the above seven, please comment and let me/us know.

Now I could also go into Daniel nine and discuss the seventieth week in more detail in an attempt to add to the above list, but Charles Cooper’s book release that covers the 70th Week is just around the corner and I feel I would do the subject absolutely no justice when compared to his work. I’m seriously looking forward to this new book that will most certainly add to my understanding of Daniel nine and that, of course, comes from a pre-wrath author. Maybe he or Alan will send me a free copy. I would do it for them.

Click here for a visual of the six heads discussed in this post.

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Take the Poll!

Let's find out exactly who is reading this blog. Take the poll on the left side of this page and we'll see who comes here over the next week.

Monday, December 17, 2007

The Beast Empire—Empire Charts According to Daniel

Click charts to enlarge.
Here are some charts that give a picture of what I've previously written of in the first four posts related to the Beast Empire. Just click the chart to enlarge it. Click here to go to part five.

Sunday, December 16, 2007

The Beast Empire—The Ten Toes After What?: Part 4

Among or After?

Now, a problem arises when we compare Daniel’s vision to the interpretation of the vision. In part three of this Beast Empire study we just saw that the “little horn” will come up among the ten horns, but the explanation of the vision given to Daniel seems to say otherwise.

As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom (fourth kingdom) ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them… (Dan. 7:24)

This is one of the main argument people use to prove that the ten horns are historical. They claim it’s a fact that the above passage teaches that each horn/kingdom will spring up and replace the previous horn, one after the other, and that the “little horn,” or "another" horn, as it's called in the above passage, is not a contemporary with all ten due to the word “after.”

But considering the conclusions I’ve come to in the previous posts I believe there must be another answer for this dilemma. The “after” doesn’t necessarily need to mean that the ten kings are historical kings that are dead and gone or usurped. It seems very reasonable to conclude that the word “after,” and it’s clear timing implication, should not place emphasis upon the “little horn” and his specific place in time. I think the emphasis should be placed upon when he arises to power in relation to the period when the ten kings receive their power. The ten kings arise to power first, and then the “little horn” arises to his place of power after they have risen to power, but while their power still remains, thus the "little horn" comes up among the ten and arises after them. This makes sense considering the ten must already be in power in order to fulfill their purpose—to give the beast their authority, helping him establish his empire and rise to power.

The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. (Revelation 17:12-13).

Click here to go to the charts I've created that display what we've covered to this point.

Friday, December 14, 2007

Pre-wrathers Are Brighter Than Jesus?

A reader has posted a comment claiming that "prewrath believers are in direct disobedience to the Lord's commands." In fact, he suggests that we need to "grow up," and that we are "deliberately disobeying" God's commands. He also adds that we "think [we] are brighter than Jesus." Do any of my other readers care to address this individual? It might be a good learning/teaching experience for lurkers.

Thursday, December 13, 2007

Romney, Huckabee and Mormonism

I'm taking a break from the Beast Empire study I'm presently working on to briefly mention a current event. Most of us have heard the political hype related to republican Mike Huckabee's question concerning Mormonism. Huckabee asked, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?" Huckabee later apologized and Romney accepted, though Mitt claimed that it's untrue that the Church of the Latter-day Saints teach that Satan and Jesus are brothers. This will certainly continue to drag on for the next few days on every radio talk show so I thought I would post the actual facts so that we can all know the truth of the matter. Romney was wrong about his religion.

From the library of the Latter-day Saints

We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).

Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).

Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor" (Moses 4:1). Satan wanted to force us all to do his will. Under his plan, we would not be allowed to choose. He would take away the freedom of choice that our Father had given us. Satan wanted to have all the honor for our salvation.

After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first" (Abraham 3:27).

Because our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Savior, Satan became angryand rebelled. There was war in heaven. Satan and his followers fought against Jesus and his followers.

In this great rebellion, Satan and all the spirits who followed him were sent away from the presence of God and cast down from heaven. One-third of the spirits in heaven were punished for following Satan: they were denied the right to receive mortal bodies.

Because we are here on earth and have mortal bodies, we know that we chose to follow Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father. Satan and his followers are also on the earth, but as spirits. They have not forgotten who we are, and they are around us daily, tempting us and enticing us to do things that are not pleasing to our Heavenly Father. In our premortal life, we chose the right. We must continue to choose the right here on earth. Only by following Jesus can we return to our heavenly home.

Monday, December 10, 2007

The Beast Empire—Timing the Ten Horns: Part 3

Now we’ve finally come to the fourth beast which coincides with the statue’s legs of iron in Daniel chapter two. I will only be discussing three or four verses, but what loaded verses they are!

The vision continues from the last blog entry:

After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Dan. 7:7)

As I’ve explained previously, I’m viewing the fourth beast as Rome. Rome certainly did its share of crushing and trampling, and when pictured as a “beast” it makes sense that part of its demolition of the former empire and culture would be viewed as devouring. The thought that the beast “devoured,” or ate the previous beast, seems parallel to Rome as it adopted, absorbed or digested the previous empire and surrounding cultures. Rome assimilated surrounding lands and peoples into it’s beasty belly.

The Pope?

And as I perused the internet today it became apparent that many people that agree with me that Rome is the fourth beast part ways with me by viewing the ten horns as historical. They claim that the ten horns represent ten kingdoms that branched from Rome thus culminating into the Catholic Church.

I’ve spent a fair amount of time in study considering the papal system as the Antichrist, and I understand why some would come to this conclusion, especially those who were alive during the religious domination of the Catholic church in its historical setting. But as I set aside mere appearances and similarities and interpret the Bible with itself rather than with headlines or history it seems to me that this is an impossibility.

Many see the vision of Daniel and rightly conclude that the ten toes/horns are very closely related and linked to Rome. They then conclude that the ten toes/horns must be historical. But it seems as if they see what they want to see, maybe due to their extreme distaste for Catholicism, when they gloss over the details to arrive at their conclusion. I admit that the vision does appear to link the toes and horns in the manner these individuals are interpreting it, but the details of the vision and the book of Revelation make this a poor conclusion in my opinion.

The vision Daniel wrote of says this:

…it (Rome beast) was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (Dan. 7:7)

As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom (Rome beast) ten kings will arise… (Dan. 24)

It does appear that the beast’s horns should be present along with the fourth beast when this is all we read, but verse 24 also says that the “little horn,” the Antichrist, will “subdue three kings.” Verse 8 tells us that it’s three of the first horns that are uprooted.

While I was contemplating the [ten] horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it (before/by the little horn)… (Dan. 7:8)

How can he subdue three of the ten kings if they are historical kings that aren’t in power at the time of the future Antichrist? These three kings that are subdued can be nothing other than three of the ten kings that are represented by the horns.

Later, the ten horns are seen once again in Revelation 12, 13 and 17. I will show more of the linkage between the horns of Daniel and Revelation at a later time, but for now notice what Revelation 17 says:

The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. (Rev. 17:12-13)

Compare this to what Daniel wrote:

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them… (Dan. 7:8)

Revelation informs us that the ten kings receive authority with the beast/Antichrist for one hour. This coincides with Daniel’s vision when he wrote that the “little horn,” or Antichrist will come “up among” the ten horns/kings. “With” and “among” seem pretty clear. The details are fuzzy, though, concerning exactly when the “little horn” will subdue three of the ten, but it seems logical to me that this subduing will take place after the Antichrist comes to power at the midpoint of the Seventieth Week when we consider the fact that Revelation says that the ten will give him their power. After all, the Antichrist and his power is not a real biblical issue before the midpoint.

Certainly Daniel makes it clear that it is the fourth beast that has ten horns, and that the ten grow from the head of the fourth beast. But considering the conclusions I have written of here, and other conclusion in the future posts I will make, I hope it is, or will be, clear that the horns are not contemporaries of, or even closely related in time to, the historical Rome/fourth beast.

The way the horns are presented as growing from the fourth beast is one reason why many conclude all are historical, but it is also one reason why many, including myself, see the ten kings and the beast empire as a sort of revived Roman empire. The horns must be future, yet they grow from the head of the fourth beast, thus the link to historical Rome and the term “Revived Roman Empire” to describe the empire of the future "lawless one." What exactly this "Revived Roman Empire" will be, I suppose only time will tell. And if you can think of a better term to describe the beast empire that will come from the fourth, dreadful and terrifying beast, I would like to hear it.

Click here to go to The Beast Empire—The Ten Toes After What?: Part 4

Thursday, December 06, 2007

The Beast Empire—Daniel's Beasts: Part 2

Just as it was shown in chapter two, chapter seven records a similar vision that Daniel had concerning the beast empires that will conclude with the “man of sin” sometime in the, potentially near, future.

The Winged Lion

And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle. I kept looking until its wings were plucked, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man; a human mind also was given to it. (Dan. 7:3-4)

This first beast with the appearance of a winged lion corresponds with the head of gold in chapter two (Babylon). And I think that it’s safe to say that when verse four mentions “stand[ing] on two feet” and “a human mind” it is speaking of Nebuchadnezzar’s restoration from crazyville after God smote him with the mind of an animal due to his proud heart (4:29-34).

This section of the vision also makes it clear to us that the particular statue portions (chapter 2) and beasts spoken of are not only empires, but are representative of the king, or leader of that empire, as well. Though the term “kingdom” is used numerous times in chapter two, Daniel made it clear that Nebuchadnezzar was the golden head of the statue.

“You are the head of gold.” (Dan. 2:38)

Plus, in the interpretation of this dream in chapter seven Daniel is told that they are more than just kingdoms.

These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth. (Dan. 7:17)

And the mentioning of Nebuchadnezzar’s mind restoration in 7:4 once again gives us a clue that these beasts are much more than just empires, but are individuals that rule the empires.

The Bear

And behold, another beast, a second one, resembling a bear. And it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth; and thus they said to it, 'Arise, devour much meat!’ (Dan. 7:5)

Just as the silver chest and arms of chapter two represented the Medo/Persian empire that would follow Babylonian rule, this beast with the appearance of a bear represents the same king/kingdom. The three ribs in its mouth are probably symbolic of the three main conquests of this kingdom.

The Four Headed Leopard With Four Wings

After this I kept looking, and behold, another one, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird; the beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. (Dan. 7:6)

If you weren’t sure before this, I assume you can guess by now that this leopard beast coincides with the bronze thighs mentioned in Daniel chapter two. History helps us to know exactly what and who this beast was, and what the four heads represent.

The Grecian empire and Alexander the Great fit this bill to a tee. Alexander the Great died in 323 BC, and his kingdom was split into four sections. The four heads in verse six are symbolic of those four kingdoms/kings that sprung from Greece after the death of Alexander.

Shaggy Goat Parallel

We see more clarification of this in Daniel eight when he had yet another vision. This time Daniel saw a shaggy goat, and Gabriel told him information that lines up with the leopard and four heads we’re discussing presently:

The shaggy goat (parallels leopard of 7:6) represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). The broken horn (death of Alexander) and the four horns (parallel the four heads of 7:6) that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power. (Dan. 8:21-22)

In my next post we will continue in Daniel’s vision from chapter seven and seek to know more concerning the “dreadful and terrifying” beast that has ten horns. This is where it begins to get good, in my opinion.

Click here to go to The Beast Empire—Timing the Ten Horns: Part 3.