Friday, May 18, 2007

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Anonymous said...

I notice that you along with nearly everyone else has by coincidence of number placed all the Seals with the one 'seven.'

With the strong correlation between the four horsemen and the conditions Jesus describes as the Beginnings of Birthpains, may not at least that portion of the Seal (the first four) be separated from the birth process which will yield a new Millennium?

This would make the "covenant with many" more than just a watershed event, it would also mark the breaking of the waters as the true labor travails begin with the one 'seven.'

Mark T.

Gone Fishin' said...


I don’t have a problem with the thought that the first seal MAY not coincide with the beginning of the Week. It’s really not a black and white issue that can be biblically proven in my opinion. As long as we don’t claim that all of the first five seals take place before the Great Tribulation, and that the sixth seal is the point where a rapture takes place before the Antichrist breaks the covenant with many.

Anonymous said...

I agree the sixth Seal describes the Day of the Lord and the Rapture happens when Jesus returns on that Day.

I think the first four Horsemen are already at work in the world. They are, as defined by God in Zechariah, spirits roaming the world.

The timing of the fifth Seal is problematic. It may be opened up just before the one 'seven' or during the oppression of the first half of the one 'seven.' Because all the action in the fifth Seal occurs in the Heavenly realm, we have very little to peg it to as far as earthly timelines. I would offer an opinion that the fifth Seal is opened before the Great Tribulation, but as far as timing, the only thing we're sure of is that it comes before the sixth Seal.

Mark T.

Gone Fishin' said...


Sure, we only know the 5th comes before the 6th, but we do know that the sixth comes after the Abomination of Desolation when we compare the triple sign in the sixth seal with the triple sign in Matthew 24.


lecoop said...


From a nontraditional pretribber:

We know that chapter one is history, and took place during the life of John. We know that chapters 21 & 22 are far into the future from us today.

Therefore, someone between these two, perhaps between two verses, we find "today." So where is that "crossover point?" Traditional pretrib says it must be between the end of chapter 3 and the start of chapter 4. They are simply mistaken.

Next thought: I was not smart enough to think of this, but I can thank the Holy Spirit. While reading the last verse of Daniel chapter 9, the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, "You could find the exact midpoint of the 70th week, 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation."
It was as if I was a bystander, as my spirit man answered Him: "How would I find that?"
He then said, "every time I mentioned an event that started at the midpoint, and went through the last 3 1/2 years, I always included the 3 1/2 year time frame. When you find those mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint."
They, almost as an afterthought, He said, "You could also find the entire 70th week, 'clearly marked.'"

So I found the five mentions of the 3 1/2 years, and then meditated on that portion of Revelation for weeks. I finally found what He had sent me to find: the exact midpoint of the 70th week.

I challenge you to take His words, and do what I did: meditate on chapters 11-13, with the modpoint of the week in mind. I will give you two hints.

Daniel told us that the abomination event would take place at the midpoint of the week, dividing the week into two halves.

Jesus said that when those living in Judea see the abomination, they should immediately flee. Where then, does John mention this fleeing? (he mentions it twice.) His mention of this then, must be after the midpoint of the week.

If you can lay aside preconceived ideas, and find the midpoint of the week, then, as the Holy Spirit said, one could find the entire 70th week, also clearly marked. Another hint: God used the same "marker" for the beginning, midpoint, and end of the week!!!!!

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Neil Wani said...

This interpretation simply is wrong. You would have to break Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7 with this interpretation. The Elect are not the saints given into the hands of the antichrist for 3 1/2 years. This is like saying the anticgrist has authority over the saints of all nations for 2 years, then the saints are raptured, then the antichrist has authority over the saints for 1 1/2 years. This interpretation is not going to break scripture.

What will happen is at the 6th seal, the elect are sealed on their foreheads. Then great judgments start to fall on the wicked. This will not effect Daniel 7 25 and Rev 13 5-7. On the very last day of Daniel's 70th week, his elect are gathered from the ends of the earth (sheep nations) and his elect are gathered from the ends of heaven (Old Testament saints).

Neil Wani said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Neil Wani said...

There is no rapture in the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week. The covenant will be for 7 biblical years or 2520 days. Day 1261 will be the day of the abomination of desolation. From that day, worldwide martyrdom for saints from all nations will be for 1260 days. Day 2520 will be the day of the 2nd coming. That date will be known 7 biblical years before the event. The angels in heaven will know the date. And the Son of God will know the date Zech 14 7.

The rapture is pretrib and is in the Fig Tree passages. Every person that teaches the Fig Tree passages are the 2nd coming will be proven wrong. The rapture is in Luke 21 29-36 and Matthew 24 32-51 and Mark 13 28-36 and Matthew 25 1-13. The righteous are taken. The bridegroom is going to the wedding. No man knows the day or the hour. No man knows the watch worldwide (Mark 13 35). The watch for the 2nd coming will be at evening time in Israel (Zech 14 7).