Wednesday, October 24, 2007

The Jews and the Arabs: Where it Began and Where it Will End

I recently had a very interesting conversation with an extreme liberal. She asked for my e-mail and wanted me to send her information about what the Bible actually says about the rightful owners of the land of Israel and how the conflict between the Jews and Arabs will finally end. Though she never did e-mail me, unfortunately, I thought I would post my prepared response to her here. The majority of the content is strictly scripture, but short headers and/or explanations are included. Most of you are completely aware of the story, but I found it fun to compact it as much as possible to show the beginning, middle and the end.

Much, of course, is left out in an attempt to keep the content to its minimum, but I think enough is here to give the big picture to the individual that may not be aware of the meat of this awesome story. And even if you know the story by heart, read it again! It still thrills me, and I hope it does you, too.

The Jews and the Arabs: Where it Began and Where it Will End
A verse by verse quick-glance

God Promises Abraham the Promised Land

Genesis 12:1-3
The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Genesis 15:5-7
He (God) took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it."

Genesis 15:18
On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates.

Sarah Doubts and Ishmael (Arab Nation) is Conceived

Genesis 16:1-4
Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her."

Abram agreed to what Sarai said. So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

Genesis 16:11-12
The angel of the LORD also said to her (Hagar): "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

God’s Covenant Promised to Abraham’s Son Isaac Rather Than to Ishmael

Genesis 17:1-2
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers."

Genesis 17:7-8
I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

Genesis 17:15-21
God also said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her."

Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!"

Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

Though the land was promised to Abraham’s descendants God had also made it clear that if they were disobedient there would be grave consequences.

Leviticus 26:14, 30-33
But if you (Jews) do not obey Me and do not carry out all these commandments I will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you. I will lay waste your cities as well and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your soothing aromas. I will make the land desolate so that your enemies who settle in it will be appalled over it. You, however, I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste.

Israel’s disobedience reached it’s apex when they denied Jesus, God’s Son. Jesus prophesied that their country would be destroyed and that they would be dispersed because they did not recognize Him or the purpose for His visitation to them. Shortly after, in 70 AD, the Romans attacked Jerusalem and Jesus’ words came true. Josephus, a first century historian wrote that over one million Jews were killed.

Luke 19:41-44
When He (Jesus) approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.

In 135 AD Jerusalem came to its finality. Jewish annals report that 580,000 Jews were killed during the course of this war. The Jews were banned from entering Jerusalem and the city was rebuilt as a Roman colony. This event was foretold by the prophet Micah, and just as he said it would happen, portions of Jerusalem were literally plowed under by the Romans.

Micah 3:11-12
Her (Israel) leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets tell fortunes for money. Yet they lean upon the LORD and say, "Is not the LORD among us? No disaster will come upon us."

Therefore because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, the temple hill a mound overgrown with thickets.

But God also promised that the Jews would be brought back to the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:21-22
and say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel.

The Jews will once again be overcome by great tribulation.

Zechariah 14:2
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

And most of the opposing forces will be Arabic/Islamic.

Ezekiel 38:1-9
The word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.

" 'Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them. After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.

But God will fight for Israel!

Ezekiel 38:18, 22-23
This is what will happen in that day: When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused, declares the Sovereign LORD.

I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.'

It will finally be proven to all the naysayers that the Jews truly are God’s people when a remnant is revived and cleansed by God.

Ezekiel 37:23
They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Jerusalem will be secure.

Zechariah 14:8-11
On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up and remain in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.


Aletheuo said...

Interesting how in your statement to your liberal neighbor you said studying the Bible was your life's work.

I realize you may not post this, however I do know you may read it so I must tell you that you have either passed right by the "meat" of your study, or you just blatantly refuse to teach the truth.

The "meat" you have so conveniently left out for your viewing membership is that Ezekiel 36 & 37 have not come to fulfillment yet. 1948 had not one thing to do with these passages regarding "the whole house of Israel" as Ezekiel 37:11 clearly states. It is the "WHOLE" house spoken to and they are not home yet. Not even 1/10th of them.

The "kol" house of Israel will NOT be back in the land until AFTER the "time of Jacob's trouble."

The Gog event is not until AFTER the 1,000 years as clearly stated in Rev. 20:7 & 8.

You also conveniently disregarded the passge that verifies Israel will endure Jacob's trouble just prior to Jesus' return when 2/3 are killed and 1/3 are "brought through the fire" for refinement.

That is Jacob's trouble BEFORE Jerusalem is restored and not one day before.

Zech. 13:8 & 9;

8: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9: And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

The whole house of Israel will be brought back to life and restored. They will even be brought out of their graves and resurrected and be shown as proof God id God and Israel (seed of Jacob) are His elect. That is the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.

Ez. 37:12-14;

12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13: And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14: And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

As I stated before if you place yourself as ateacher you had better be teaching the WHOLE TRUTH. Not the brand of piecemeal cut and paste type you now teach.

Those who profess to be teachers WILL fall into greater judgment. James 3:1.

A warning from a Brother. It will be my last Dave.

In Christ Jesus,


PWTribune said...

Aletheuo, I previously said that I would not interact with you anymore because of your attitude, false accusations and inability to comprehend my clear statements. But you have proven my point so clearly in your latest response that I've failed to stick with my former promise to not respond to you. I’m a sucker.

I want to point out some issues with your latest comment in order to clarify some things to the other readers, just in case some may be new to this subject or to Bible study in general. I will also show, once again, that you need to approach things with a little more thought rather than jumping to conclusions and falsely running down others.

Aletheuo said>>
The "meat" you have so conveniently left out for your viewing membership is that Ezekiel 36 & 37 have not come to fulfillment yet. 1948 had not one thing to do with these passages regarding "the whole house of Israel" as Ezekiel 37:11 clearly states.<<

Aletheuo, I'm not sure why you have such a hard time reading what I actually say. This is at least the 5th time you have read something into what I said, or completely ignored what I said. It's weird. When did I say 1948 fulfilled the promise in Ezekiel 37? I didn't, but just as you did repeatedly in my last post, you saw what you wanted to see. I said:

"But God also promised that the Jews would be brought back to the land of Israel."

And then I simply showed the verse, and as you seem to have a habit of doing you assumed that I said something that I didn’t. BUT, to say that 1948 and 1967 have NOTHING to do with the passage, I think, is an overstatement. So, the passage is not in its complete fulfillment, but its completion can be in stages, and I think that 1948 was the beginning of the work God has planned for Israel. I mean, really, who says they have to come back all at once? To say they must, or that 1948 has nothing to do with anything seems kind of odd to me.

Aletheuo said>>
You also conveniently disregarded the passge that verifies Israel will endure Jacob's trouble just prior to Jesus' return when 2/3 are killed and 1/3 are "brought through the fire" for refinement.

That is Jacob's trouble BEFORE Jerusalem is restored and not one day before.<<

You must have missed that too! I clearly said:

The Jews will once again be overcome by great tribulation.

And then I showed a verse that spoke of the troubled times that they will endure. First, I don’t need to show every verse that speaks of every detail because the point of this article is to be as compact as possible. But no matter how much I included you would attack me because I left something out, so I’m thinking that from now on I will simply post the entire Bible each time that I write something so that I please you. Secondly, even IF I didn’t mention that Israel would go through Jacob’s Trouble AT ALL it wouldn’t matter because the reason for this short piece was to communicate the story of the Jews and the Arabs: Where it began and where it will end. Notice, this is the title at the top of the page, and if you understood context as clearly as you think you do you would have understood that this little piece was written to a woman that thought that the Arabs where the rightful owners of Jerusalem, thus the whole reason for me simply showing where the Jews and Arabs came from, who the promise was made to and how it will end for them. I wanted to help a poor woman that has been misled greatly by her Arab fiancĂ©.

Aletheuo said>>
The Gog event is not until AFTER the 1,000 years as clearly stated in Rev. 20:7 & 8.<<

There is clearly more than one “Gog event,” but at this point I don’t think that this is an important issue that you and I need to try to come to an agreement upon. I’m pretty okay with you and I not seeing eye to eye.

Aletheuo said>>
A warning from a Brother. It will be my last Dave.>>

I doubt it, but a guy can hope.


Lou Martuneac said...


I saw your blog referred to elsewhere so I dropped into say Hello.

I am not highly skilled with Eschatology, but have a good understanding of much of it.

At my blog I have a link to Bob Shelton who I believe is very knowledgable and balanced in this area. I have heard him speak and have his book.

This is my blog: In Defense of the Gospel

This is the other site I referred to:
Bob Shelton Gospel Ministries

You should find some useful information at both sites.

Kind regards,


PWTribune said...

Thanks, LM. I'll try to get some time to come visit you.

Lou Martuneac said...

Sounds good.


Aletheuo said...


Forgive me for assuming and assuming a position you clearly did not state in your post. I stand corrected.

It is absolutely my fault for assuming you stated things you clearly did not.

On the matter of Gog/Magog there really is no passage that would indicate anything other than a single occurrence. Stating, as you did, "There is clearly more than one “Gog event”" would substantiate what I said regarding that event.

The only Gog traceable in Biblical lineage was the son of Shemaiah who was the son of Joel who was of the tribe of Reuben (1 Ch. 5:4) making Gog a 100% Israelite. That alone would eliminate him or his bloodline.

His only son Shimei had but one son Micah who had one son Reaia who in turn had one son Baal whose only son was Beerah. Beerah was taken away captive to Babylon by King Tilgathpilneser (Tilgath-Pileser) and is never recorded as returning from Assyria or having any offspring.

That would effectively end that bloodline. Not one thing is mentioned until the Gog/Magog event that Revelation 20:7 & 8 states will occur AFTER the 1,000 years. Ezekiel 38 & 39 is a blow by blow account, Rev. gives the time.

That would leave but one event, one occurrence. The only way anyone could remotely assume it occurs twice is to place it, as most do, prior to, or during the 3 1/2 year long Jacob's trouble.

One very important statement in Ezekiel 39:11 is overlooked;

"there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude"

As most claim the Gog of Revelation is a resurgence of the Ezekiel Gog, where can any emerge fom since "ALL" are dead and buried 1,000+ years before?

It follows that the misinterpretation of Ez. 36 & 37 as being what occurred in 1948 & 1967, and is ongoing, gives rise to the Gog/Magog event being twice.

The prophecy from Romans 11:26 that "ALL" Israel will be saved means precisely what it says and is what was foretold in Ez. 36 & 37. All Israel from Jacob's (Israel's) seed, will be brought out of their graves and resurrected back to life during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.

Ez. 37:11-14 state clearly the graves will all be opened and they ALL will be brought back to life. Then after the 1,000 years a new individual from the heathen "that are left around them" (Ez. 36:36) named Gog will gather nations against Jerusalem one last time at Satan's command, then the Gog event and the end of them forever, as Satan is tossed into the lake.

Again, forgive me for accusing you of saying what you did not say here. But by your statement regarding two Gog events, my claim is not without merit. My method however was wrong and for that I apologoze.

In Christ Jesus,


PWTribune said...

>.My method however was wrong and for that I apologoze.<<

Apology accepted. And thanks for simply stating what you believe in you last post. I appreciate it!