Sunday, January 22, 2006

The Seals Are God's Wrath?

1 Thessalonians 5:9 informs us that we are “not destined for wrath, but for salvation.” It is claimed that the Church must therefore be removed before the opening of the seals of Revelation (Rev. 6) because they represent the beginning of God’s wrath. But are the seals really God’s wrath?

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed (Rev. 6:9–11, NIV).

In Rev. 6:10, the martyred saints cry, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” If God’s wrath has been poured out since the opening of the first seal, wouldn’t He already be judging those who dwell on the earth and avenging the martyrs’ blood? But, because of this passage, we clearly see that, as of the 5th seal, He is not judging nor avenging, and therefore is not yet pouring out His end-times wrath as the pre-tribulation theory claims.


4 comments:

DBULL said...

Dave, I've never met a Dave I did'nt like :-P

When I read Matt 24 I feel just as strongly about the pretrib position regardless of the wrath question. Let's remove God's wrath from the entire equation and just look at the days of Noah and today. Noah was taken into the ark before the flood started killing off mankind. Let's look at the picture painted for us: 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

The Lord gives us this information about the time leading up to the flood:

people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark

What kind of picture is He painting here about the days leading up to the flood? He says that things will be this way before our "unknown day and hour" just like they were in the days of Noah. Does this kind of wording sound like words used to describe days during the tribulation or does it sound more like the days we are living in right now :-) Cheers brother~D

Dave Bussard said...

Other Dave said>>>What kind of picture is He painting here about the days leading up to the flood? He says that things will be this way before our "unknown day and hour" just like they were in the days of Noah. Does this kind of wording sound like words used to describe days during the tribulation or does it sound more like the days we are living in right now :-) Cheers brother~D<<<


We could certainly ascribe this thought to the way it appears we are living right now, but the way I feel matters little when the Bible clearly tells us what God’s plan is.

For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains. But you brothren, are not in darkness, that the day will overtake you like a thief (1 Thess. 2-4).

1 Thess. Makes it clear that the Day of the Lord will come like a “thief in the night.” And it will come when they are saying, Peace and safety!” And when does the Day of the Lord come?

The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood BEFORE the great and awesome day of the Lord comes (Joel 2:31).

And when does this sign appear? In Matthew 24 AFTER the abomination of desolation, and in Revelation 6:12-13 AFTER the famine, after the death, pestilence and martyrdom (Rev. 6:8-13). The Day of the Lord and God’s wrath is shown, in 1 Thess. and Rev., to take place at the very same place Jesus says it will happen in Matthew 24.

I understand that you think that Jesus all of a sudden stops speaking of His coming that takes place after the abomination, and then starts talking about a pre-trib rapture in Matt. 24:36. But there is absolutely no indication for this in the text. In fact, it makes no sense at all.

Matthew 24 in orderly fashion
1. Abomination of desolation and great tribulation - v. 15, 21
2. Christ’s coming, AFTER abomination and GT – v. 29-31
3. When you see ALL these things (signs previously mentioned), He’s near - v. 32-33
4. But of THAT day and hour, no one knows – v. 36

What is “That day?” It can only be the day He’s been speaking about in the entire discourse. How could He say, “But of THAT day,” if all of a sudden He’s speaking about a day (a pre-trib rapture) that He has not previously mentioned until that point in the text? “That day MUST be the day He comes, as shown in verses 29-31.

The enemies of God are able to proclaim peace and safety during the Great Tribulation, and up to His coming in Matt. 24:29-31, because they will be safe, or at least have a false sense of security. It will be the Church that is suffering while the unbelievers feel protected by their leader, the man of lawlessness, who commits the abomination of desolation.

Then Christ will come. Then, and only then, at Christ's coming, will the Day of the Lord and His wrath come like a thief in the night and take His enemies by surprise, just like it happened in the days of Noah.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief (1 Thess. 5:4).


The Other Dave

Dennis said...

Preach it, Brother Dave!

Secret Rapture said...

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My Inaugural Address (PDF File)
Main site: My Inaugural Address
Also: My Inaugural Address
Your jaw will drop!